Love and feelings and grace and stuff

I was having a conversation with Jim44444 a few days ago, about my refuser. For those who don’t know, my refuser goes through periods of extreme depression (to the point where I’m worried about him – there have been suicides in his family.)

He’s least depressed when I’m with him. But we never do anything that I couldn’t do with my brother, or a platonic friend. So if this goes on too long, I get depressed.

Anyway – long story short – his depression is one of the reasons I have trouble completely ending things.

Jim’s opinion was that my love for my refuser hasn’t gone away; it has morphed into a different kind of love. And I realized that is true.

I may be one of the rare women who can love more than one man at a time. I’m presently feeling the lack of a rougher, hungrier, more intense kind of love than I have with my refuser. Regardless – it’s still almost impossible for me to hurt him.

Jim’s remark reminded me of this blog entry from last year, so I’ve brought it back and dusted it off.

JennaR asked a question – “Love never dies – true or false?” Another one that I answered where she posted it – but I feel like it deserves its own forum.

I will reply from my own experience – that’s really the only source I can cite with authority.

It can take me a long, long time to come to love somebody – or to realize I love somebody. But once I do – I never stop loving them. Ever.

Do I get angry at people I love? All the time. I’m human, and so are they. But I get over it – usually fairly soon. I might rant, but then it’s out of my system and the anger is gone. And over the years, I think I’ve learned to choose my words, be aware of the right times and the right places, consider the effect of my words on other people, etc.

But my anger doesn’t mean I don’t love you. Au contraire – if I don’t care enough to get angry, then I don’t love you.

And the same is true for my jealousy, my hurt feelings, my fear, and all the other not-so-nice feelings I have because I’m a human being.

My love for a person is like the ocean. It’s eternal. My feelings are like storms at sea. They’re temporary.

And there are so many kinds of love. I love my parents. I love my pets. I love my best female friends. I have loved some men.

If you dump me, I’ll still love you. But after I’m through being angry, jealous, hurt, etc., my love will turn into a different kind of love. It may take a long time – but eventually, it will.

When I was in my early 20s, the guy I thought I would marry dumped me. And my emotions about the whole thing felt horrible.

But I did get over it. I met other men, fell in love again, married someone else, got divorced, etc.

And when I heard my former fiancé had gotten married, I was able to wish him well.

Then, a couple of months ago, he told me via Facebook that he was getting divorced. And I was able to be honestly sad for him.

And when he sounded like he was trying to rekindle things with me, I was able to kindly and gracefully discourage him.

I still love him, but not at all in the same way I used to. And that’s okay.

That love is still in the ocean – time has just shifted it into a different current now.

Posted by SmartKat at 09:17 on June 17th, 2014 at 9:17AM (updated Jun 17th, 2014)
1-1 of 1 Comments


Posted on 07:15PM on Jul 1st, 2014
I agree SK. Love comes in many varieties. Good blog 🙂


The Ashley Madison hack was vigilante justice by self-appointed guardians of morality 

The collective righteous indignation of Puritanical America is being unleashed on those who have dared to reclaim their sexuality from spouses who think they own it. 

Honesty time: If anything but Ashley Madison had been hacked, would you think, “Oh, well, they got what was coming to them?” What if it was your child’s school that got hacked? 

Disclaimer: I know that in most people’s opinion – stepping out on your mate is a bad thing to do. And in general, I agree.

If you have a spouse who genuinely cares about your feelings and is willing to meet you halfway, my advice lines up with the majority. Don’t sneak around on a person who listens to your concerns and does his or her part to make the relationship a happy place for both of you. That really IS a mean, rotten thing to do. 

If your problem is simply boredom with the same-old-same-old – I also agree with the conventional wisdom that you should try to improve things at home, not step out. And if this is a recurring problem for you – maybe you just aren’t meant to be monogamous (and in a conventional marriage.) Not everybody is, despite society’s attempts to force everybody into a Noah’s ark lockstep.

However – sometimes marriage can be horrible, difficult, and seem like a life sentence. Nobody knows what any individual marriage is like, except the participants. Sometimes, you Talk To Your Mate About The Relationship™ until you are blue in the face – and nothing ever changes. Sometimes you do your best to Work On The Relationship™ – and get no results at all; or worse, outright resistance.

“Just leave. Don’t cheat!” say the advice-givers (who love to talk but not listen.)

Yes, in a perfect world, mates would always be completely honest with each other. Couples would always be cleanly broken up before either of them ever even contemplated another partner.

If you live in a world where it’s that easy, good for you. Could you please post some pics of your pet unicorns on Facebook? I’d love to see them.

Sure – it’s better, when a relationship is clearly not working, to be free of it. But in the real world, there are spiteful bitchy wives who would poison children against their fathers if those men ever tried to leave. 

In the real world, there are husbands who have decided to eagerly embrace the tired-old-man lifestyle. So what if their wife isn’t ready for that yet? A good woman would follow the lead of her man and just settle down and be a nice old lady. You can’t leave a good man “just” because of sex!

In the real world, there are women who never will be self-supporting above subsistence level, because they spent years raising children full-time, and in a capitalistic society, if nobody thinks your work is worth paying for – sucks to be you. And in the real world, there are husbands who allowed their wives to stay home, and (despite marital problems) don’t want the woman to be destitute – so it’s “cheaper to keep her.”

People have problems. Life is messy. Don’t judge until you are certain that YOU could be a perfect saint, if you were living that person’s life.

Who are those hackers to sit in judgment? Who made them the police force and the judge and jury? 

If people think it’s OK for these American prudes to do a thing like this, how would they feel if ISIS did it?

My opinion: if people think the Ashley Madison hack is okay, then I don’t want to hear them complaining if somebody hacks the data of some organization they belong to, like the NRA, the ACLU, the NAACP, the Catholic Church, the local Republican or Democratic Party, or any other group that has opponents – and their data gets stolen from there.

If it’s okay to hack Ashley Madison, then is it okay to hack any other group you don’t like? And let’s not muddy the waters by bringing up NAMBLA, or groups of that ilk. Going behind your spouse’s back can be unjustified and mean, and is dishonest. Messing around with children (because they can’t give true consent) is evil; and it is illegal. Law enforcement is already hacking their data, so there is no need for vigilante justice.

And vigilante justice is what the Ashley Madison hack is really all about.

I haven’t outsourced – it’s a big step to take, and I wouldn’t do it lightly. But I refuse to rule it out. 

That said – anybody using Ashley Madison who has any intelligence at all would create a throwaway web-based email account for this purpose, and make up a fake name. A man who was too dumb to take these precautions would be much too dumb to attract me.

Your reality check for Monday (revised)

[Revisions to the original post are in brackets.]

[NOTE: If you are concerned that I am arguing against a person’s right to say no to unwanted sex – I am not. To put it in context – go here.]

Your Reality Check for Monday – A Rant

[The day this was first released happened to be a Monday. I was feeling really angry, so consider that fact while reading.]

WARNING: Do not read if you dislike profanity. You have been warned.

I’m feeling extreme white-hot hate towards female refusers of attractive men. Fuck those child-obsessed, house-obsessed, pious prissy bitches up the ass with a splintery flagpole.

Men, get a fucking clue. If a woman won’t fuck you, she doesn’t love you.

[You may or may not understand this aspect of female behavior. Here’s a lesson in female psychology.]

[If your wife or female lover is very rarely willing to have sex], don’t listen to her lying bullshit about a more “mature” kind of love or a “sanctified” love. When tefusers say things like that, they really mean, “The best you can hope for is that I love you like a brother. And nobody sane fucks their brother.”

Female refusers don’t really love their husbands at all, they love their husbands’ pay checks.

I hope every single one of them gains 100 pounds, develops a truly crustaceous skin problem, and that their vaginas smell so bad that you need a gas mask to be in the same room with them.

In plain English: if she won’t fuck you, she doesn’t love you. End of story.

I hate those bitches that men complain about, but for some unknown reason end up with and stay with. What the hell is so special about them? What do they have that I don’t have?

Guys, you could have somebody like me! Women who would gladly have sex with you DO exist. Most of us are in relationships with male refusers. (More on male refusers later.)

Oh, refused men. If, when you were younger, you had married somebody like me in the first fucking place, you wouldn’t be in this mess now. But no. The women like me weren’t good enough. We were too easy. We deprived you of your precious chase. By loving you, being willing to give love with our bodies, and being impatient with gameplaying, we lost you to the refuser bitches.

Only it’s really YOUR loss, because now you are trapped with a woman who does not love you and will not have sex with you.

Well, guys, it’s like I’ve said before – if she’s playing hard to get, she DOES NOT WANT YOU.

If she won’t fuck you, she doesn’t love you. I can’t say it enough.

If these fucking refusers would just tell the truth in the first fucking place, everybody would be better off.

Here are some examples of what female refusers really [mean when they say they “love” you.]

A – All my sorority sisters got big huge engagement rings and bridal showers and a big fancy wedding with a beautiful dress and bridesmaids. I want one too!

B – I am ruled by my uterus and exist only to breed. My brain is totally superfluous. And once my uterus has been satisfied, I won’t need to have sex any more. Sucks to be you.

C – I’m on the rebound. Somebody else broke my heart – you gave me the TLC I needed – you fell for me and got serious – and I was so wounded I went along with it. But my broken heart is mending now, and I’m having trouble pretending you turn me on.

D – I’m within 10 years of menopause, so now I get to gain weight and use sickness as an excuse to get out of doing anything I don’t want to do – which includes sex. I never loved you to begin with, and I only married you because of reason A, B, or C above.

What’s that? There are medical treatments for the symptoms of menopause? Oh, but that’s not NATURAL. I don’t want to put those nasty icky chemicals in my precious body! (Note: if that’s the case, see if she’s willing to give up her unnatural car and her unnatural computer.)

Oh, and speaking of icky and nasty – no, I’m not going to do oral! That’s for those sluts who really loved you before you dumped them for me. I’m a good, sanctified, respectable *wife*, and we don’t do nasty icky oral. The very thought makes me think I will puke.

Male refusers aren’t off the hook either. We women are suckers for love. And we’ve been taught to believe that the man does the pursuing. So if a man doesn’t pursue us, if we are smart, we conclude that he’s not interested and we go away quietly and don’t bother him.

Now, if we are single and allowed to date – this isn’t the end of the world.

If you’re a single woman and a man is lukewarm towards you, you can look for other guys. If you’re married or in another kind of monogamous relationship, you’re stuck. You might as well be dead.

Here are some examples of what male refusers really mean [but don’t say]:

A – I couldn’t have the woman I really wanted, so I settled for you. But frankly, I find you extremely unattractive and I can’t even get it up by pretending you’re Pamela Anderson any more.

B – All the other guys my age are married and they have houses and yards and minivans and kids. They envy me, but they won’t hang out with me; and the older I get, the fewer non-gold-digger women will pay attention to me. Also, my parents are starting to wonder if I’m gay. So – I’m single; you’re single; we’re both lonely, and we both want to prove we’re [straight, and able to attract a mate.] So why not?

C – You used to turn me on, but I’m one of those men who gets bored with the same woman by about the fifth date. Sorry, I’m just not interested any more. (How did this guy end up married? See B above.)

D – My body is starting to crap out on me, and I’m ready to live like I’m 85 years old. Sex isn’t as good as having a good bowel movement and going to bed early after the 4:00 dinner special at Golden Corral.

What’s that? You’re only 50 years old, you look 40, and act 35? Too bad. I’m ready to be an old man now. Why can’t you just settle down and be a nice old lady? My back hurts. I have a sinus headache. I do *not* need Viagra – I can’t talk to my doctor about that, [it would threaten my male ego!] And no, I’m not going to go down on you; Wheel of Fortune is on.

My refuser, in particular, belongs in this last category. I’m angry at him because he lied to me again last night. “It’s not over forever,” he said. Yeah, right. Bull-fucking-shit. I don’t believe him any more. Our sex life has been over for 6 fucking years. I won’t believe him unless I see him with an obvious boner and he practically tries to rape me at least twice a week for a year.

And you know what? Even if he did – it’s probably too late. I’m losing interest. See what I said a few paragraphs earlier – if a man pushes me away enough, I take the hint and stop bothering him. If I loved him, it hurts. But I do eventually get over it – and then I’m no longer interested in sex. Make me wait too long, and you lose, sucker.

Oh, and “I’ve got a new medicine,” he said. How is this medicine going to be any different from any of the other medicines? I felt like telling him to take his medicines and shove them up his ass – but I didn’t.

Posted by SmartKat at 09:35 on June 16th, 2014 at 9:35AM (updated Jun 16th, 2014)

This Blog Entry’s Comment Board (2 comments)

1-2 of 2 Comments


Posted on 11:07PM on Jun 17th, 2014

Your right, female refusers just don’t give a shit about the men in their lives, but they are comfortable and like the paycheck so why rock the boat? Plus, they would actually have to WORK for a living! But the men still stick with them! Why?

Because they were there first, the men are not really “happy” but they “owe it” to their wives? WTF?! Just because they got their first? They are owed nothing! If you are not loved, then fuck off!

Also, my refuser fit into category “D”, too. I feel your emotional pain. He was also a mater manipulator and turned into an emotional abuser. I took the hint when he turned up the heat on the emotional abuse (oddly, it was when I started working on myself to improve myself, when he thought I was going to leave him when I had no intentions of leaving at that time, I just wanted to be happier)…life is too short to live without love, intimacy, and SEX! You lose ASSHOLES…next!



Posted on 07:47AM on Jun 26th, 2014

Interesting… hmm… See I hear some of what you say here from a female refuser in my marriage right now but I’ve come to accept it